Artist Jess on being a Type 5: Risking Exposure, the Symbolic Objects I Put Between Us, and the Terror of Mindless, Soul-Dead Zombie-People (SO/SP 5w6 538)

Jess is a Type 5 (SO/SP 5w6 538) writer and artist “based on the internet.” Like many 5s, she prefers her privacy and requested that I mention no signifiers of her identity beyond the above. She originally typed as a 7, which given the way she presents, is no surprise. Jess takes on a a whimsical romp through "pleasure gardens," symbolic objects, and the terror of soul-dead zombie-people. This conversation really challenged my understanding of 5-ness. It was fascinating to explore how her withdrawn, rejection core -- underpinned by two assertive fixes -- "deals with" the social drive for connection while maintaining separateness. Enjoy.

Subscribe to my newsletter here: https://www.joshlavine.com/

Watch on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/OTpE3lL1dHw

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:24 Interview start; “living on the internet”; the desire not to be found

4:52 Avarice; contrasting social desire for connection & withdrawal of 5; being a stranger in a strange land

8:13 the pleasure garden, disappointment that the other can’t see they’re in a garden; loneliness

12:08 Enneagram origin story, thinking I was a 7, getting typed as 5

14:58 The symbolic object that I place between us

19:43 My hidden intellectual agenda (or, unspoken hope); the 5 tendency to provoke

22:43 Seeking connection through the mind; “can you withstand this” - they probably can’t but might as well fuck around and find out

25:03 Missing connection through the body during pandemic; yet sensory overload of physical presence

26:58 Social instinct yearnings vs 5-ness; the “something” I’m looking for

31:35 “Fuck it” energy; whimsy

33:28 What “MATTERS” and what it means for something to be “MINE” - I’m the source of it; What matters is autonomy to learn, research, process, create — the tinkering itself, not the result

40:47 Where do you locate your “self” internally? Body awareness in space

46:49 Inner work? Creativity, dream analysis, meditation.

50:23 Her art & thematic underpinnings: “I don’t do anything that doesn’t also mean something else.”

52:19 Alchemy of art; art as self-discovery; 5 impulse for discovery pointed inward

56:28 Not important that others see my art; the expectation that others will fail to see “it” or “me”

1:03:03 538 trifix; 3 fix as “tether to reality — can’t forget about the other”; conflict between 5 and 3 fix — want to be seen, but uncomfortable

1:05:53 On protecting my heart; hoops to jump through before i reveal it

1:08:49 Terror & mindless, soul-dead zombie-people; FEAR in general — I be drained, inconvenienced by other humanS

1:15:13 The risk of exposure - “a thread would be pulled and everything would come apart at the seams”

1:18:41 Zombie fear reprise: terrifying because what?? they’ll unknowingly suck something away from me in “reckless, heartless consumption”; head types: “fear all the way down”

1:22:01What’s this like for you?

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

---

#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagramtype5 #enneagraminterview